dirtLM wrote on 11/23/06 at 9:26am:



A body does not make a pro stock ( super stock ) a limited late.

Wide fives, quick changes, motor set back, coil-overs,z-link, birdcages, Brinns, etc. make a limited late a limited late.

ive been debating running a green car.

How much would it cost to build a LM to run with Drake, Johnson and Hogge?  Anyone can build a car cheap to go run some laps.  To build a car that can win cost serious $$ in the LM.  Most of the top drivers are either business owners or have someone fronting the bill.  The 90s LM was a cool class that got kicked to the curb with the progression of the LM class.  That's basically what your seeing the SS as now.  The key is finding the point where you say this is as far as the class should go.  It's harder than it appears because everyone has different opinions.  I think we got a solid set of rules last year (SMS/BAK) that were logical, clearly understood and cost effective.  

From the guys I talked to up north none of the rules are the same at any of the tracks which keeps them from having good car counts on any given night.  The EW is a solid 18 cars all the time.  Sometimes 25+.  These are regular shows, not Open Comp shows.  No rules have been changed as of yet, the body rule was just open for discussion.  This year the class pulled back to an untouched rule on the heads and the tire rule last year pulled back to the medium compounds.  Any of the stuff the guys have on their cars now (aside from the body) could have been done 8 years ago.  The SS is closer to a hobby stock than a LM.  I've seen alot of hobby stocks converted into SS.  You need that for transition.   I think most of the drivers would be up for some kind of loose template for the SS division.  Basic guidelines.  It still comes down to the tracks determining whats acceptable and what's not.

Sparky, As long as they conform to the rule, you can't stop a chassis manufacturer from making chassis.  Your just going to have to work harder on your car.   It might help to show up to Bak every once in a while to get it faster.  You should be thankful you have Doug and Patch to help you figure it out.

Actually the old latemodels (80s 90s) were far more advanced than the Super Streets.  They ran:
mono-leaf/coil combos,
aluminum brakes,  
aluminum rims,
10 inch EC2s,
aluminum drivelines,
torque shocks,
torqe arms,
quick changes,
modified clips and
ported aluminum heads.  

Actually in 93 they converted to aluminum bodies at sms, A few years earlier at bak.  That was the end of the bumper covers.  No one runs fiberglass anymore.  You had to bring a bucket to pick up all your pieces off the track.  The whole idea of the east west was to get ahold of the division before it went that far.  The two tracks were loosey goose on their rules allowing things to run that were either very grey or absent from the rules.  Now we have a black and white rule book thats more or less in stone.  The only downfall I see to the aluminum bodies is we all agreed on no rule changes/modifications for 3 years. The only rule that was added is Scotts aluminum head program and the demon carb that goes with it.  I'd still like to see that rule refined more like some kind of swap program for carbs/motors but other than that it seems like a good deal.

Billy, for the '80s-'90s late models being "far more advanced" why were they slower than the super streets of today? Wait, let me answer that, tires! The cast cylinder heads today are better than the aluminum heads of the '80s-'90s. The chassis are no different other than some bolt on parts, they weigh the same, the 2bbl. carb has been a big factor since the '80s-'90s also. So as for being "far more advanced" you need to step back and rethink a few things.

One of my biggest gripes is for some reason we think that our race cars have to evolve. They don't, except for maybe safety issues. My opinion is the stock clip cars evolved their way to extinction. I went to the BUD Nationals in '89 to watch and saw like 60 LM's and as the carswere allowed to have more things less guys couldjustify the $$ and quit. The last year I ran with a stock clip at the Nationals I think there were 22 cars. We don't want SS to do that. Or we would all buy LM and have a weekly show with 100+ cars. This started out talking about the bodies, Steel to Aluminum. Performance sells them for the same price and Aluminum is available in multiple colors. Sounds great! Lets keep the cars the same for 10 years and let some guys move up and we will have big shows everywhere. If you decide you want to go faster, there are some great classes to move up to and you can sell your SS to someone wanting to move into the class. When I was a kid all we had was 2 classes and they ran a full B in each of those. Now I got to tracks with 5-7 classes and they run 1 or 2 heats and have a 7-12 cars in the main. BORING!!!

E-W has a great thing going and I hope it continues!

DTJ

racermick wrote on 11/24/06 at 9:02pm:



Seeings how Larry and Sparky are the only drivers posting on here to that have raced all three classes there opinions should be held in the highest regards.

Not shorting anyone on their career, the EW rules should be made by EW drivers.  I'm not sure Larry weighed in one way or the other on the body rule other than todays SS are faster than 90s late models and I need to check my facts.  Sparky said he didn't care one way or the other on the rule as long as there was some kind of body guidelines which I agree with.  I'm game with the majority on this one..  But the SMS guys should get a vote. We got little cars if any from up north last year. Even in the Bottoms up race which probably had the cheapest entry for the largest total purse in California.

In any case, maybe we should stick to the rule we have now maybe for the next 2 years then make the move?  Either way, we should decide soon as guys will be building bodies soon.  

In a perfect world the CA Super Street should have one rulebook througout CA.  As you can see with this one body rule, getting everyone to agree is nearly impossible.

The best way to do it is a vote than it's presented to the tracks.