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Message started by SawyerRacing98 on 08/26/09 at 5:00pm

Title: house painter
Post by SawyerRacing98 on 08/26/09 at 5:00pm

my wife and i just closed on our house today, i need the trim painted, does anyone know who does this locally in town for a good price, and has seen there work? thanks

Title: Re: house painter
Post by FASTMIKE on 08/26/09 at 5:15pm

565-1000 Cole's Coating's

Lic. insured and has painted more houses for me than i can count.

tell him i refered you and you want the deal!

peace...............................mike

Title: Re: house painter
Post by SawyerRacing98 on 08/26/09 at 8:28pm

Thanks Mike! I will be giving him a call first thing in the morning, I appreciate it! see ya!

Title: Re: house painter
Post by Matt_8 on 08/26/09 at 9:33pm

FASTMIKE wrote on 08/26/09 at 5:15pm:

565-1000 Cole's Coating's

Lic. insured and has painted more houses for me than i can count.

tell him i refered you and you want the deal!

peace...............................mike

He does great work. He did our house and Mikes, and they both look good. ;)

Title: Re: house painter
Post by FASTMIKE on 08/27/09 at 6:49am

i did not know that Mathew, thanks for the affirmation.

peace..................................mike

Title: Re: house painter
Post by bigmikes on 08/27/09 at 7:30am

I got a new house also Robby and I got estimates for 1300.00 I sat and thought about it and let me tell you I HATE TO PAINT but I went to my local paint store and got everything I needed to paint my house for under 300.00 and painted my house with the wife kids and made some family time out of it.

Title: Re: house painter
Post by hogracer3d on 08/27/09 at 9:00am

bigmikes wrote on 08/27/09 at 7:30am:

Thats crazy, I don't do houses anymore, because the insurance company made me quit (they dropped all residential contractors).

But I would have to say that a legitimate, licensed, insured (liability and workers comp) and permitted contractor will go broke painting complete houses for $1300.

Unless it is just the trim or something, in which case one guy could finish it before lunch, if he busted azz.

Painter's workers comp premium is among the highest of all trades (about $26.00 per $100 of payroll)

Example for 2 men to paint 1 house exterior (1 day):

2-men @ $21/hr ($15 + 40% comp and ssi, etc) = $420
20 gals 100% acrylic paint @ $20/gal = $400
Consumables- Tape, paper, cardboard, sandpaper, etc = $80
work truck, insurance, gas, wear and tear = $75
Spray rig w/permit, pressure washer, etc = $75
Sales taxes = $40
Liability insurance and license fees = $30
sub total --- $1120
owners mark-up @ 25% $280
total----$1400

I wouldn't do it for that, as I prefer the Texas 2% or for every 1 I spend, I get 2 back-lol for a total of $2800.

I would paint this example for a friend or families house for beer + cost or a customers for $2800.

If your gonna work for free, then work for free- otherwise it's $2800

Or drive away.

Painting a house for $1300 is really equal to one of you guys going to work and donating a days labor for free, and paying for all of the tools and transportation out of your pocket.

And for the do-it-your-selfers, be honest-(1) how much time did you really spend on it,(2) how much paint or overspray is on the windows, roof, concrete, etc? (3) where did you hide the mess?

I would give the guy his $1300, a big thank you, a tip, a kiss and a Christmas card---That is a deal

JMPO

Title: Re: house painter
Post by FASTMIKE on 08/27/09 at 10:43am

TIME is a commodity that I willingly pay for.....jmo.....guess i am getting old...lol

Title: Re: house painter
Post by bigmikes on 08/27/09 at 11:40am

I got 10 gallons of paint from Sherwin Williams paint for around 90 a piece then I had a bunch of newspapers to cover windows and such and I did buy some tape but I found it easier to use a cardboard beer box with a straight line cut on it to do the trim and make it look nice I also spent around 25 bux in rollers. Im just saying I saved alot a had a great day with the family which is priceless in todays world.

I think the guy the gave me the estimate pays his guys cash im sure he dont pay comp and insurance for them, that is how the little guy is surviving in todays over taxed world.

Title: Re: house painter
Post by benstrans on 08/27/09 at 11:43am

Workman's Comp is nothing but mandatory health care for the employed.

Ask ANYONE who pays it how well it works.

Title: Re: house painter
Post by FASTMIKE on 08/27/09 at 7:29pm

ben it works GREAT when you are sued.....lol

Title: Re: house painter
Post by SawyerRacing98 on 08/27/09 at 8:27pm

i just figured it will be easier, the house has alot of awnings, and we are going to bass lake next weekend so i figured, well i have the money, why not pay someone to do it. that is why i work my butt off every day, so i can pay someone to do the things i dont want lol... hey mike thanks, he is meeting my wife tomorrow at noon to give an estimate...

Title: Re: house painter
Post by hschamp90 on 08/28/09 at 9:12pm

hogracer3d wrote on 08/27/09 at 9:00am:

bigmikes wrote on 08/27/09 at 7:30am:

Nice post, sometimes someone that knows what their talking about needs to tell people, that don't own a business, how expensive it is too do business in Cali.

Title: Re: house painter
Post by NAIL IT WHOYA. on 08/28/09 at 9:56pm

Yeah, and he's just figuring one day labor for 2 guys. You usually need a couple days by the time you pressure wash the house, scrape and prime the peeling paint on the wood trim, mask everything including drop cloths.
And $15.00 and hr. for quality journeyman painter is not much $$ MY opinion.....

Title: Re: house painter
Post by bigmikes on 08/28/09 at 10:14pm

hschamp90 wrote on 08/28/09 at 9:12pm:

hogracer3d wrote on 08/27/09 at 9:00am:

bigmikes wrote on 08/27/09 at 7:30am:

Nice post, sometimes someone that knows what their talking about needs to tell people, that don't own a business, how expensive it is too do business in Cali.

I know what it cost to work here in Cali, I only was suggesting to Robby to do it himself to save some cash that he could use in his racecar

Title: Re: house painter
Post by hogracer3d on 08/28/09 at 11:08pm

NAILIT wrote on 08/28/09 at 9:56pm:

True, Davis Bacon is about 33.50/hr for a Journey level painter, and more for the specialties like steel, steeplejack, and so fourth.

I was trying to be conservative, so people didn't think I was a d!ck-lol

You just pretty much get a warm body for $15/hr

Supervisory sell rate in the plant is $71/hr (straight time)

Most everything we do is "hard money" or fixed price, and by the sq ft.
Tank interior linings go for from about $5.00/ft to $20+/ft for high performance linings like flake glass vinyl esters.

A good journeyman blaster/coater should produce 1000+ sq ft/ day or they can't stay

Title: Re: house painter
Post by Mark on 08/31/09 at 9:28am

Congratulations on the House Robby, and my comment is not a attack on you.

Hogracer you have my up most respect by illistrating the actual cost of doing buisness and your integrity to run it ligitmatly as a felow contractor we are the underdog ...seem some one always has a clever way to get around the actual cost(TAX FREE), my beef is wilth contractors that have workers comp certificates but pay their employess cash
Workers comp as evil as it sounds has treated my employees fairly as well as me I would not send any one out in the feild with out it , their is no better feeling than telling some one with a issue, go to the emergency room if you think there is a problem .

People that pick up help at home depot or circle K , you do not know who they are bring to there house, possible fugitives , ailens , basic criminal,current injuries,dodgeing child support, ect. or skill level. if necessary use a service like labor ready , they charge $15.00 a hr and provide workers comp , so later if a problem arises their name is documented any injuries are covered and less chance of theft.

When you employ a Ligit contractor you are putting your money back into the local economy , not having it spent to up grade living in mexico but in your town paying city taxes and lubricating your economy

Also a contractors skill level and experience is what you are paying for , a lot of trades are generalized by monkey see monkey do , I see a lot of good material installed with 3rd world labor and quality not lasting because it was not installed by a journeyman who dose the same trade daily , the customer saved 20% but the product fails early, where is the savings ?

When I give a Bid I ask the customer are you trying to make a savings or a investment with your purchase , If you are trying to save money I am in the wrong guy,because you can allways get it done cheaper by a guy standing in front of circle K

Any job with a combined material and labot cost can not exceed $600 per job address other wise you are contracting with out a license
A home owner or buisness owner can play contractor and hire some one hourly but not by the piece, gut now assumes all the responsibility , risk and Warrenty.

When planing your project before you sign anythink Check License status , either on the web CSLB.ORG or 1-800 321-CSLB and in 5 minutes you will know if their WC is current , what trade they are licensed for , and any claims that have been made, current and previose historys with bond companys and court judgements...............you could just be handing a check to a guy who's license is revoked , suspended , contracting out of class , workers comp exempt or non existant
Also ask to have a certificate of General liability faxed from their agent and not from them / easy to fake ( takes minutes not days, takes one phone call...if there is a delay may be a problem)... you will not be listed on it other wise it cost another $100, it is just the copy you want to see
it will also state the WC status

If you hire unlicense make sure they are 30% lower than a ligit contractor as they do not have the same overhead , now you have some extra money to repair any failures or legal matters that may occure at a later date

Title: Re: house painter
Post by hogracer3d on 08/31/09 at 4:13pm

I got one for ya Mark--

I have a friend who owns a Temp Service, and he was bidding on supplying supplemental labor to the chemical plant.

Another local General Contractor was bidding on the same job (they don't like each other very much either)

The General claimed that the Temp Service was using a out of classification (lower) comp rate in order to obtain the jobs.

The General called State Fund and filed that complaint, which launched a comp audit and investigation of the Temp Service.

After a full day of the auditors going through 3 years of my friends payroll records and checks, they determined that the General was correct and the temp service had been using the incorrect rate.

But much to my friend's surprise, it was a lower rate that he was supposed to use, not a higher one.

They then stood up from the table and said, State Fund will be issuing a refund check for the difference, to which he asked how much?

They replied $46,000 and some change !!

He got the check a week later, and the supplemental job too!

lol

Title: Re: house painter
Post by Chad_E._Jeffreys on 08/31/09 at 9:52pm

Yeah, this whole insurance deal has been what's killing us for years. We have run a respectable and honest Plumbing shop here in Bakersfield for the last 19 years, and when I stepped into the position of handling everything from start to finish on a daily basis, I finally had a good arguement with our liability insurance guy. He really pissed me off on a quote of $56,800.00 a year for track homes which has been our steady bread and butter for many years. The problems stem from cheaters of the system and virtually no policing of the laws. I've come to realize the general public has to help us police it by demanding the quality and respecting the costs as we are trained specialist at what we do. It seems like a losing battle as we're fading away with a new breed of contractors are taking over, just wish it would of happened back when I was 20 instead of now, I'm 40 and not sure what to do. Guess I'll just go build a racecar LOL. Chad

Title: Re: house painter
Post by FASTMIKE on 09/01/09 at 6:36am

contractors should and must sell the value of being legit. teach the consumer how to ask for an insurance certificate as mark explained.

i owned a tree service in 1000 Oaks and i took ALOT of time explaining why my bid was higher when my work comp rate was 42.00 on EVERY 100 in payroll before any mod! this was to protect them.....it worked 99% of the time.

Title: Re: house painter
Post by Mark on 09/01/09 at 8:20am

I Check the license status of my competitors and have called them directly and told them that I inform their customers that they have no workers comp and didnt want them to hear it second hand ...I also have my payroll company call them and ask if the can be of service to ligitimize there buisness practices ....shakes them up ...enough to get a WC policy but that dosent mean they pay into it .
I have contacted the contractors board to make complaints against contractors licened and unlicened and they have every excuse why not to come out mainly "entrapment" same with WC ...worthlessbastards.

The advantage of employing a ligit contractor is if a problem arises durring or after the job is compleate you contact their bond company ( found on CSLB website) and they will fairly resolve the problem and will pay the judjement even if the contractor is broke ...this cancels their bond and ability to conduct buisness leagly untill the bond is paid off ... it is one quick way to get some ones attention(a lot of contractors think you cant touch them because they are incorperated, this fixes that ) ..expecialy if they dont return your phone call.
When I talk to prospective customers I tell them to look at work that is at least 1 year old and talk to the customers about their experince ,preformance and warrenty wise

Contractors are required to behave and follow all the rules ...Too bad the same isnt inforced with the consumers..a small form of tax evasion!

The best thing is that you do not have to pay a unlicend contractor 1 cent... and if they do a bad job you can sue them to have it done correctly by a licensed contractor .......a big waste of your time and money ...but the education will be priceless

You Pay Peanuts .... You Get Monkeys ! ;D >:( :o :'( :o >:( ;D

You are Either THE CAUSE or THE CURE

Title: Re: house painter
Post by hogracer3d on 09/01/09 at 9:16am

I find it common that even licensed contractors activly violate CSLB regs, by asking for a excessive downpayment before work begins.

A contractor is only allowed to request a maximum of 10% or $1000, whichever is less.

And are required to have a minumum of $2500 working capitol at all times

Title: Re: house painter
Post by FASTMIKE on 09/01/09 at 10:05am

mark i liened the bond of an asphalt contractor to solved his workmanship issue and he went from cussing me and not returning my phone calls to eating THOSE PEANUTS right out of my hand until i was satisfied. when he was finished he told me that i was the last one he thought would put a lien on his bond.....lol

consumer protections are in place for the informed.

Title: Re: house painter
Post by dscEvents on 09/01/09 at 3:30pm

Mike, I'm surprised you would use those liberal progressive consumer protection laws. Isn't the free-market supposed to protect you from bad contractors?

And what's this about only hiring contractors that are regulated by the government. I thought that all government regulation was bad?

At least that's what the free-market advocates have been claiming.

dsc

Title: Re: house painter
Post by FASTMIKE on 09/01/09 at 4:13pm

one word David.........LIABILITY.

in this litigious society we live in i understand MY liability for YOUR uninsured contractor.....talk to your homeowners agent and they will INFORM you of YOUR lack of coverage WITH unlicensed contractor.....

oh yeah the state contractor board is not made up of politians.....it is other contractors who sit in judgement of you as a contractor as to you workmanship.....unlike the B.A.R. for cars among others...

and if there was not a lic. board there would be an association of contractors who would be thee best.....the cream ALWAYS rises to the top....

nice try though dave....i am still for SMALLER govt at ALL corners of govt.

peace..............................mike

Title: Re: house painter
Post by dscEvents on 09/01/09 at 10:12pm

But you did seem to endorse consumer protection laws that protect consumers (like yourself) from being ripped off.

Of course I know that doesn't mean you are for big government, I was just giving you a hard time.

I'm also for small government. In all corners. But I'm okay with basic standards to protect citizens from harm or fraud.

peas..............................dave

Title: Re: house painter
Post by FASTMIKE on 09/02/09 at 9:34am

if you are for smaller gov't at all corners could you please critique this administrations spending in the first 6 months? how would you have done it differently? how you would continue going forward?

i know you are extremely intelligent and will take some time to answer this so i thank you in advance for the time it will take and just want to understand your position on this administration.

peas and carrots............................mike

Title: Re: house painter
Post by dscEvents on 09/02/09 at 3:35pm

That's a tough one.

I think it's not that surprising that a Democratic President would spend money. It's almost a given. Especially when you consider the election results. But I think that Obama has made the same mistake that Bush made when he was elected.

The attitude that the election result is an endorsement of all of your particular policies and ideologies. Bush did it after his election by cramming all kinds of conservative things down our throats that the people didn't vote for, now Obama is making the same mistake by proposing liberal solutions that most people are not comfortable with.

As far as Obama's spending. There are a lot of area's that I would not have spent taxpayer money. The bailouts are at the top of my list. Even though I realize that the economy would have tanked if not for the bailouts, I think that would have been the only way to weed out the problem actors in the US economy. It would have been painful, and conservatives would blame the pain all on me due to the fact that they never blame their own policies. But it needed to be done. Let the failures fail.

Already on Wall St. some of the same players that devised the financial derivatives that caused the collapse of the biggest banks are already setting up new firms to take advantage of the low prices caused by the mess they caused. But these guys will prosper because we are all too busy and involved blaming everything on the new guy.

You ask what I would do.

The first thing I would do is stop the finger pointing and honestly look how we got here. I would then begin to re-regulate, YES, REGULATE, the banks, investment brokers, and financial markets to make sure that these banks have the capital to back their risky plays with our money. And I would appoint people to the SEC and FDIC that were not industry insiders that do the bidding of their former and future employers. Instead, banks would now have to be accountable for their business decisions. WHAT A CONCEPT...accountability. No more using our tax dollars to guarantee your salary when your bets don't pay off. This is not having the "government run your business", it's just simple, moderate collateral regulations to protect the nations financial system so they wouldn't even be a need for a bailout. And it's simple common sense.

I would next look at cutting programs and cutting federal payrolls. Now this would also cause a spike in unemployment that the conservatives would blame on me, but so be it. The federal government is the nations largest employer. No need for that. Many tasks can be turned over to the private sector as a public utility contractor.

I would also computerize all government documents and implement data sharing systems that have been developed and adopted by the private sector. This would also help in cutting government paper pushers and speed any dealing with the government.(permitting, social security, taxes, medicare, etc.) More efficient, and less folks on the federal payroll. Win-Win.

I would keep tax rates to what they were during the Clinton era when we were running budget surpluses. Cut the Capital gains tax a little. Cut the estate tax for families making less than $500,000. Cut the loopholes for off-shore accounts. Increase compliance among member nations hiding income. Give tax credits to small businesses that increase employment for a number of quarters.

Once the economy was back on track I would attempt more cuts to social services and social security. Again, I would be hated by almost everyone, but the benefits would soon start to show.

If things went well I'd probably try some more courageous changes like relaxing marijuana laws, taxing only recreational use. Medicinal use would be tax free, but I would increase the medical standard to get a prescription. No more fly-by night doctors or dispensaries.

And if I really had balls, I would add a small public option to health care by expanding the Federal Employee Health Benefit Program (FEHB) to include any American that wants to join that meets certain basic employment standards. I would pay for this by a small 2% to 3% tax on businesses. Yes this would also be unpopular among businesses, but the benefits of not having to provide health care to employees will more than make up for the tax. And healthier employees are more productive. I would also require private insurance companies to cover the patients that are already paying their premiums. No more dropping a customer after 20 years of paying premiums because they got sick and the insurance company then "discovers" that you didn't fill out your application correctly.

And finally, I would use stimulus money to pave the parking lot at SMS. It would boost the local economy and my car wouldn't get so dirty. Okay, so I'm guilty of caving to a special interest, my own.

Wow! I keep thinking of more, but if I reveal it all then Mike wont buy my upcoming book. lol!

dsc

Title: Re: house painter
Post by jr07 on 09/03/09 at 7:51am

......and you would do it all without taking over massive parts of the private sector, eroding any personal privacy rights, or growing the size and power of the federal government.

How long did it take you to come up with your plan...any longer than it took to type it?

Our elected officials are a disgrace to the positions that we have put them in. Like the saying goes...."you get the government you deserve".

Kiss the republic goodbye :'(

By the way Dave....very well thought out and presented. But then it's a lot easier to explain clearly and concisely when you have no hidden agendas...isn't it.

Title: Re: house painter
Post by FASTMIKE on 09/03/09 at 8:33am

i have not had time to absorb the response to my request but i will!

but jr07's last line of his response is spot on!

peace.................................mike

Title: Re: house painter
Post by formercrewguy on 09/03/09 at 9:48am

Before I did anything, Dave........I would enact strict ethics rules for ALL elected AND appointed officials in gov. I would END paid lobbyists, and special interests. I would make it LAW, that all pending bills MUST actually be read by lawmakers. I would OUTLAW add-ons to bills.

All of your points are interesting,Dave, but before any legitimate solutions can be undertaken, we must make sure those who are enacting these laws, are reputable. I want term limits. I want bills that can be understood by rank and file citizens. I want every Congressman and Senator to vote the way THEIR constituents want them to vote.

THIS is where I would start before I spent a single dime.

Title: Re: house painter
Post by OLD SCHOOL#6 on 09/03/09 at 10:02am

I can't believe where this thread has gone. I mean --- all the guy wanted was to get somebody to paint the trim on his new house................... Thirty posts later we have guys campaigning for government office. I vote for formercrewguy.............LOL :D ;D

Title: Re: house painter
Post by formercrewguy on 09/03/09 at 10:04am

LOL................oh yea............I HATE PAINTING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: house painter
Post by dscEvents on 09/03/09 at 10:14am

I would add FCG's suggestion about lobbyists to my platform. Our campaign finance system almost guarantees that politicians will always favor special interests over the common folk. But remember, conservatives consider it a form of freedom of speech to give massive amounts of money to politicians they support. They have always been against restricting the money flow to politicians because they have more money to buy the politicians.

I also like the part about eliminating the "add-ons" to legislation. This is how pork gets into every bill. Good call Bob.

And to answer jr07 question. Yes, I would do this without taking over massive parts of the private sector. Unless of course you consider setting basic rules for businesses as a massive takeover of the private sector.

And I think I would actually increase personal privacy rights. I don't think what I do in the privacy of my own home is any business of the government as long as I am not harming, or otherwise infringing on someone else's rights.

And wouldn't legalization of marijuana actually shrink the government? No more DEA. And law enforcement could now focus on violent criminals who are an actual danger to society.

And term limits is a good idea only if the lobbyists are eliminated from the political system. Term limits in California has actually had the negative effect of increasing the power of career lobbyists in the state capitol because they have more experience that the elected officials. Getting rid of experienced legislators has only increased the influence that lobbyists have on our laws.

So before we can have term limits for elected officials, we have to have term-limits for lobbyists.

Forgive me if this doesn't make any sense. I only thought this out in the time it took me to type it. lol!

dsc

Title: Re: house painter
Post by formercrewguy on 09/03/09 at 10:29am

dscEvents wrote on 09/03/09 at 10:14am:

UAW......TEAMSTERS.......CTA..................etc,etc..............NOT conservative, never was...never will be. Conservative lobbyists pale by any comparisan to these multi-billion dollar super lobbyists..................right?

Title: Re: house painter
Post by dscEvents on 09/03/09 at 11:00am

If that were true, why is it that the biggest opposition to campaign finance reform are conservative Republicans?

If the influence of Union money is so powerful, why not eliminate money from the system?

I think that the answer is that wealthy conservatives and powerful corporations have a lot more money to throw around then the unions. And the thought that unions spend "multi-billions" is hyperbole in the extreme.

It's true that different unions are individually among the biggest donors to both Dems and the GOP (but mostly Dems)

But the single biggest contributor to politicians is AT&T. And corporations are by far the biggest contributors when you add them all together.

But I'm in favor of eliminating all political contributions of any kind. You'll find opposition to this from both Dems and the GOP. But the GOP has historically been the biggest roadblock to public financing of campaigns. But lets be honest. No politician wants the flow of money to stop.

dsc

Title: Re: house painter
Post by CamaroKid on 09/03/09 at 1:47pm

"But the GOP has historically been the biggest roadblock to public financing of campaigns."

You are obviously not including the last Presidential campaign !

Title: Re: house painter
Post by jr07 on 09/03/09 at 4:44pm

dscEvents wrote on 09/03/09 at 10:14am:

And to answer jr07 question. Yes, I would do this without taking over massive parts of the private sector. Unless of course you consider setting basic rules for businesses as a massive takeover of the private sector.

And I think I would actually increase personal privacy rights. I don't think what I do in the privacy of my own home is any business of the government as long as I am not harming, or otherwise infringing on someone else's rights

Forgive me if this doesn't make any sense. I only thought this out in the time it took me to type it. lol!

dsc

#############

Dave,

My post was not a question but an affirmative statement in response to your post.

Not all of my posts include sarcasm...........well........... not all of my posts are completely sarcastic. ::)

Title: Re: house painter
Post by mudslinger47 on 09/03/09 at 7:27pm

You ask what I would do.

The first thing I would do is stop the finger pointing and honestly look how we got here. I would then begin to re-regulate, YES, REGULATE, the banks, investment brokers, and financial markets to make sure that these banks have the capital to back their risky plays with our money. And I would appoint people to the SEC and FDIC that were not industry insiders that do the bidding of their former and future employers.
Got to be careful here, this is where Madoff got away with so much, the inspectors weren't, for lack of a better term, smart enough to catch him even though they were handed his abuses on a silver platter.

Instead, banks would now have to be accountable for their business decisions. WHAT A CONCEPT...accountability. No more using our tax dollars to guarantee your salary when your bets don't pay off. This is not having the "government run your business", it's just simple, moderate collateral regulations to protect the nations financial system so they wouldn't even be a need for a bailout. And it's simple common sense.

There is NEVER anything moderate about government control, though, I don't have a better answer.

I would next look at cutting programs and cutting federal payrolls. Now this would also cause a spike in unemployment that the conservatives would blame on me, but so be it. The federal government is the nations largest employer. No need for that. Many tasks can be turned over to the private sector as a public utility contractor.
Good move here, by cutting the fed payroll and CUTTING taxes almost simultaneously, your unemployment number probably wouldn't spike as much as you think. Tax cuts are imperative to getting business rolling again. I would also go over big with the stock market which in turn boosts spending which inadvertently boosts everything else.

I would also computerize all government documents and implement data sharing systems that have been developed and adopted by the private sector. This would also help in cutting government paper pushers and speed any dealing with the government.(permitting, social security, taxes, medicare, etc.) More efficient, and less folks on the federal payroll. Win-Win.

I don't know if you could do that Dave, the school systems that I work with tell me that the paper problem is worse with computers but they can't tell me why.

I would keep tax rates to what they were during the Clinton era when we were running budget surpluses. Cut the Capital gains tax a little. Cut the estate tax for families making less than $500,000. Cut the loopholes for off-shore accounts. Increase compliance among member nations hiding income. Give tax credits to small businesses that increase employment for a number of quarters.

Were starting to part company here Dave, Klintons budget was smoke and mirrors and you know it, his federal cuts were almost entirely in the military. There should be ZERO estate tax, the taxes were paid on all those things once already and in some cases several times. No problem with the off shore account deal, but some of that is legal now, you have to make it illegal. The lower you make the capital gains tax, the better it is for employment, the more money corps can plow back in there respective businesses the more employment there is, and that is a good thing.

Once the economy was back on track I would attempt more cuts to social services and social security. Again, I would be hated by almost everyone, but the benefits would soon start to show.

Social services yes, but I think ya need to let the old people alone, it isn't their fault the government stole all of the social security money.

If things went well I'd probably try some more courageous changes like relaxing marijuana laws, taxing only recreational use. Medicinal use would be tax free, but I would increase the medical standard to get a prescription. No more fly-by night doctors or dispensaries.

Guess what Dave, MJ is not the only drug out there, in my view and it is skewed conservative, It solves nothing, once one drug is legal, the money men wove to the next, they won't even miss a step. From my part time job, I can assure you, no one is worried about being busted for MJ, no body except the big growers, and they'd still be around anyway.

And if I really had balls, I would add a small public option to health care by expanding the Federal Employee Health Benefit Program (FEHB) to include any American that wants to join that meets certain basic employment standards. I would pay for this by a small 2% to 3% tax on businesses. Yes this would also be unpopular among businesses, but the benefits of not having to provide health care to employees will more than make up for the tax. And healthier employees are more productive. I would also require private insurance companies to cover the patients that are already paying their premiums. No more dropping a customer after 20 years of paying premiums because they got sick and the insurance company then "discovers" that you didn't fill out your application correctly.

Dave, you have freakin' lost your ever loving mind. I will have my pocket constitution with me Sat. night, show me in there where it is the governments job to provide health care. And don't get me wrong, Obama's plan would save me a bundle of money, but my grand kids and great grand kids would be paying for it and that ain't right. You obviously haven't dealt with a government office lately. It took men avour three months to register my truck, not because I didn't have the proper paper work or that I didn't have insurance, but because I couldn't show proof of insurance in November of 2008, and there are a heck of a lot more Americans going to the hospitals the to the DMV. I am presently waiting on registration for a trailer going on three weeks. Ya gittin' my drift here, Dave?

And finally, I would use stimulus money to pave the parking lot at SMS. It would boost the local economy and my car wouldn't get so dirty. Okay, so I'm guilty of caving to a special interest, my own.

Wow! I keep thinking of more, but if I reveal it all then Mike wont buy my upcoming book. lol!

dsc

All in all Dave, your not a Despot, but a lot more liberal then you let on. (until now)

LOL Duane

Title: Re: house painter
Post by formercrewguy on 09/03/09 at 8:36pm

Whenever ppl talk about legalizing weed, the movie," Refer Madness" comes to mind....................LMFAOOOOO :D

Title: Re: house painter
Post by dscEvents on 09/03/09 at 9:56pm

CamaroKid wrote on 09/03/09 at 1:47pm:

"But the GOP has historically been the biggest roadblock to public financing of campaigns."

You are obviously not including the last Presidential campaign !

Show me where the Republicans ever submitted a bill to publicly finance campaigns. I'm not calling you a liar. I'm just not aware of anything they put forward.

I think you may be confusing campaign finance reform with the matching funds offered if you agree to limit spending, but I could be wrong.

dsc

Title: Re: house painter
Post by dscEvents on 09/03/09 at 11:00pm

Duane,

Thanks for your detailed answers to my points. Although I don't agree with some of your counter-points, I do appreciate your measured response.

Your comment about Madoff ignores that he did the majority of his swindling during the Bush years with Bush appointees at the helm of the SEC. The permissive nature of the Bush SEC allowed many to get away with thievery. My appointees would not be beholden to Wall Street traders.

You say there is never anything moderate about government control. How are basic regulations and laws "government control"? Are you against all State and Federal laws that protect the public? Are you saying Toy companies should be able to make products that are fatal to children? Or that Banks should be able to spend your money in any way they wish? C'mon now. It is my belief that you can have laws without tyranny. Common sense regulation is not "government control" in the way that you mean.

I'm not surprised you would agree with my cutting federal payroll and programs. But most economists on both sides agree it would cause serious short-term unemployment. There's not much I can find to dispute that. But I would still do it.

And there's no real proof that tax cuts increase employment. There are many differing opinions, but nothing conclusive. There have been times when employment has gone down after a tax cut. And there are examples when employment has been fine even after a tax hike. It really depends on how those tax savings are spent. And because the government doesn't (and really shouldn't) force businesses to invest their tax savings in added hiring, there's no guarantee that cuts produce jobs.

About the school systems problems with information technology. I never take someone's failure as proof that something can't be done. Just like the GW Bush's response to Hurricane Katrina doesn't prove that the government can't respond to emergencies. It just proves if you need to appoint competent and experienced people to be in charge. There are always smarter people out there.

Klinton's budget may have been "smoke and mirrors", but he used the same budgeting standards that both Bushes used. That's how GW kept the Iraq war "off the books" so he could pass that cost off onto your grandchildren.

Social Security needs to be a part of any cuts. Old people are just another special interest group. I thought you despised the "liberal" AARP? Now you're in favor of their platform?

I didn't really understand how marijuana skews conservative? or what that means. But I do think decriminalizing pot would save billions in prison costs and free up cops to take down real bad guys.

And I'm not sure that the Constitution has anything that prevents government health care programs. Medicare has never to my knowledge been deemed unconstitutional. Nor has the Veterans Administrations health care system. But go ahead and bring your pocket Constitution. We'll look for where the Patriot Act is listed. lol.

And the health program I proposed only covers working people. It wouldn't cover all the uninsured. That would be a problem with liberals, but tough. Yes the employment tax would add short term debt, but would pay for itself over many years as businesses and employees reinvested their health savings back into the economy, adding to tax revenue.

I do find it interesting that you don't want your grandkids and great-grandkids paying for a public health care plan, but it's okay that they'll be paying a lot more for the Iraq war and other mandated debt that's been accumulating since Reagan started the trend of massive deficit spending. Remember, it was Reagan who said that "deficits don't matter". The majority of total national debt has come from budgets signed over the years by Republican Presidents. Where have you been for the past 3 decades?

( Correction ) I have found out that I was wrong about the Reagan quote. It wasn't Reagan who said "deficits don't matter". It was actually Dick Cheney who said that "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter" when referring to government spending by the GOP. My apologies. dsc

And I mailed my car registration to the DMV and received my tags a few weeks later. Also, my mail came today at about the same time it has been coming for as long as I have lived here. Another government operation. I'm not sure why you've had so much problems with your registration. But generally if you follow the rules, like providing proof of insurance or a smog certificate(not a certification of smog, lol) then you shouldn't have problems with the DMV.

Again Duane, thanks for your honest critique of my platform. But I have to ask, where the heck is Fastmike? He started this mess by asking me a detailed question and then he disappeared! It's a good thing Duane is there to take up his slack! lol!

Sleep tight!

dsc

Title: Re: house painter
Post by FASTMIKE on 09/04/09 at 5:46am

roflmfao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i am working and paying my taxes so these pukes that we call the govt can cause this debate!!!!!!!!

sorry for stirring the pot but i must leave to go purchase some vehicles to stimulate this economy to pay for billys social programing...

cracked crab on me for gettin your panties in a bunch dave!

peace..............................................mike

Title: Re: house painter
Post by mudslinger47 on 09/04/09 at 9:02am

Thanks for your detailed answers to my points. Although I don't agree with some of your counter-points, I do appreciate your measured response.

Your comment about Madoff ignores that he did the majority of his swindling during the Bush years with Bush appointees at the helm of the SEC. The permissive nature of the Bush SEC allowed many to get away with thievery. My appointees would not be beholden to Wall Street traders.

I kinda thought that was a given, cause he was in jail almost the same time Obama was becoming Prez. I listened to a guy that said he handed Madoff to the agency on a silver platter but no one there was smart enough to figure it out. That was my only point. Having inspectors of the sake of just having inspectors won't work, they'll need to be well versed in the financial end of it and if they are, they can make a whole bunch more money on the outside, rather then on the inside.

You say there is never anything moderate about government control. How are basic regulations and laws "government control"? Are you against all State and Federal laws that protect the public? Are you saying Toy companies should be able to make products that are fatal to children? Or that Banks should be able to spend your money in any way they wish? C'mon now. It is my belief that you can have laws without tyranny. Common sense regulation is not "government control" in the way that you mean.

That may be your interpretation of regulation, but for what ever reason it always turns into government control. Case in point, a few years ago during our contrived gas shortage, all states were mandated by the Fed's to have a 55 mph speed limit, if they didn't do it they received no fed funding, that to me is control.
I'm not surprised you would agree with my cutting federal payroll and programs. But most economists on both sides agree it would cause serious short-term unemployment. There's not much I can find to dispute that. But I would still do it.

Maybe so, but is conjecture by all I guess.

And there's no real proof that tax cuts increase employment. There are many differing opinions, but nothing conclusive. There have been times when employment has gone down after a tax cut. And there are examples when employment has been fine even after a tax hike. It really depends on how those tax savings are spent. And because the government doesn't (and really shouldn't) force businesses to invest their tax savings in added hiring, there's no guarantee that cuts produce jobs.

I disagree here alot, every time, not once in a while, but every time that you give the business men a tax cut, the coffers in the treasury go up. There is only one way that can happen, it has to be employment and sales. I know its hard for the left leaning (notice I didn't say lib) to give a tax cut and credit to big business, but none the less it still works.

About the school systems problems with information technology. I never take someone's failure as proof that something can't be done. Just like the GW Bush's response to Hurricane Katrina doesn't prove that the government can't respond to emergencies. It just proves if you need to appoint competent and experienced people to be in charge. There are always smarter people out there.

With the hurricane, you need to start a little lower then the President, those problems started locally with the Mayor and the Governor way before "W" got involved. I remember watching on Fox news with Shepard Smith crying on TV about how come it took so long to get the water and supplies to the people. The only thing he left out is they had three days warning to get out and didn't do it, how is that "W"'s fault. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm saying with the government mentality, you'd have to fire everyone in the administration and start fresh.

Klinton's budget may have been "smoke and mirrors", but he used the same budgeting standards that both Bushes used. That's how GW kept the Iraq war "off the books" so he could pass that cost off onto your grandchildren.

In my opinion, the Iraq war had to be fought, you may disagree with how "W" went about it, but the fact remains we haven't been attacked on a large scale again. And for that I am truly thankful to President Bush and his staff of millitary.

Social Security needs to be a part of any cuts. Old people are just another special interest group. I thought you despised the "liberal" AARP? Now you're in favor of their platform?

I don't know if you recall, but AARP is NOT a government agency. I am not nor never will be a member of AARP, as a matter of fact, it pains me to write the letters. My point is, anyone who has paid into the system deserves there just reward.I'm in complete favor of changing the system or privatising it.

I didn't really understand how marijuana skews conservative? or what that means. But I do think decriminalizing pot would save billions in prison costs and free up cops to take down real bad guys.

I just don't think it'll make much difference in the law enforcement end of it, I could be wrong. But if I am, so is the Sheriff that lives across the street from me and my son-in-law, also a Sheriff dep.

And I'm not sure that the Constitution has anything that prevents government health care programs. Medicare has never to my knowledge been deemed unconstitutional. Nor has the Veterans Administrations health care system. But go ahead and bring your pocket Constitution. We'll look for where the Patriot Act is listed. lol.

Medicare is in shamble and broke, bad examples.

And the health program I proposed only covers working people. It wouldn't cover all the uninsured. That would be a problem with liberals, but tough. Yes the employment tax would add short term debt, but would pay for itself over many years as businesses and employees reinvested their health savings back into the economy, adding to tax revenue.

Raising taxes NEVER works, the coffers ALWAYS go down when taxes are INCREASED

I do find it interesting that you don't want your grand kids and great-grand kids paying for a public health care plan, but it's okay that they'll be paying a lot more for the Iraq war and other mandated debt that's been accumulating since Reagan started the trend of massive deficit spending. Remember, it was Reagan who said that "deficits don't matter". The majority of total national debt has come from budgets signed over the years by Republican Presidents. Where have you been for the past 3 decades?

I'm sure you remember three thousand people were killed on 9-11. The war was necessary. The debt you speak about by the Republicans will be dwarfed by Mr. Obama, probably four fold.

( Correction ) I have found out that I was wrong about the Reagan quote. It wasn't Reagan who said "deficits don't matter". It was actually Dick Cheney who said that "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter" when referring to government spending by the GOP. My apologies. dsc

And I mailed my car registration to the DMV and received my tags a few weeks later. Also, my mail came today at about the same time it has been coming for as long as I have lived here. Another government operation. I'm not sure why you've had so much problems with your registration. But generally if you follow the rules, like providing proof of insurance or a smog certificate(not a certification of smog, lol) then you shouldn't have problems with the DMV.

Ahh, using the USPO as a model agency of the government is perfect, constantly over budget, and uncompetitive. Personally, I'd stop Sat. delivery and save a bundle. The DMV, are nice folks trying hard to do a good job, I'm sure. It's just a government agency with to much regulation, what difference does it make if I can show proof of insurance for a vehicle over a yr ago? The lady I was dealing with was very nice and was helpful but when she said I should keep my vehicle documentation for seven yrs, I had to tell her she was nutz, in a nice way. All was resolved, but if you have 304 million people to deal with, its going to bog down the system.

Again Duane, thanks for your honest critique of my platform. But I have to ask, where the heck is Fastmike? He started this mess by asking me a detailed question and then he disappeared! It's a good thing Duane is there to take up his slack! lol!

See, we knew Mike was there the whole time!!!

Duane

Title: Re: house painter
Post by dscEvents on 09/04/09 at 9:54am

Hey Duane,

Maybe we should get our own radio show! Less writers cramp. lol And we could invite Mike as a guest when he's not too busy financing Billy's lifestyle.

And Mike, my panties are not in a bunch... but if that gets me an invite to Cracked Crab, then I'm freaking livid!

Isn't it sad how I'll sell my soul for bisque?

dsc

Title: Re: house painter
Post by CamaroKid on 09/04/09 at 10:27am

dscEvents wrote on 09/03/09 at 9:56pm:

CamaroKid wrote on 09/03/09 at 1:47pm:

"But the GOP has historically been the biggest roadblock to public financing of campaigns."

You are obviously not including the last Presidential campaign !

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/02/20/mccain_criticizes_obama_on_fin.html

Title: Re: house painter
Post by formercrewguy on 09/04/09 at 12:08pm

By the way..........good ol' Charlie Rangle is under investigation. It seems Comrade Pelosi is thwarting the investigation as best she can,while proclaiming THIS Congress as the most "open and honest" Congress in history !!!!!!!!!!!!.....................hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.......................SHE IS THE SHEDEVIL.............

Title: Re: house painter
Post by mudslinger47 on 09/04/09 at 6:03pm

Sooooo, Robby, did you ever get anyone to paint your house? LOL Duane (thanks for starting a great debate, been to quiet around here)