Post by imracin68j on 11/25/06 at 10:29am
bluebyu wrote on 11/25/06 at 9:05am:
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Next your going to tell me our new EW prototype car looks like a posse car...
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Saturday Night Racer
http://www.latemodelracer.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl Saturday Night Racer >> SATURDAY NIGHT RACER >> TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? http://www.latemodelracer.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1163739301 Message started by imracin68j on 11/16/06 at 8:55pm |
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Title: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/16/06 at 8:55pm I think it's a pain in the A@@ to paint the steel SS bodies. It's also harder to work with. I know we said we would roll the rules for 3 years but this rule is a big timesaver. Does anyone NOT like the aluminum body rule? It's good for discussion if someone has valid points against. I can't think of any reason not to do it. I could see a few years back when half the field was on stock pannels (I know a few still are). But just about everyone is on aftermarket stuff now. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by junior_varsity_14 on 11/16/06 at 9:22pm well i've never personally worked on an aluminum body but from what i've heard you can't just beat the dents and dings out of them like you can with steel. i could be wrong though... |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by hogracer3d on 11/16/06 at 9:41pm I like aluminum, I just wish it came pre-lettered And don't forget the California Redemption Value--:) |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/16/06 at 9:41pm your right on that. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by FASTMIKE on 11/17/06 at 5:59am Flyin Ryan 4 wrote on 11/16/06 at 9:22pm:
hey junior varsity, i don't know squat about squat, but i saw a aluminum panel get set on a piece of cardboard ontop of a steel table and get straighten in about 3 minutes with some "southern ingenuity" and it looked darn good........ Hey Billy, Odie and Lee will have a good debate about this! peace.............................mike |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by SS72 on 11/17/06 at 7:41am I have worked with the aluminum bodies for a few years, and they are a lot easier to work with than steel bodies. You can just lay them down, start pounding it out back to form, make hole patches if needed in just a few minutes and this type of repair can be done right at the track, if something does happens from hot lap to the main. They are a big time saver and not only that, it's easier on your back also. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by sj_valley_dave on 11/17/06 at 8:59am 77c will go with the flow on this one. We like the idea of pre anodized colors, so if the rule gets changed, thats all good. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by ST_ODIE on 11/17/06 at 5:43pm Apparently No one cares about Cost. Remember I have a Sheet Metal Shop at my Door So We know the cost on Sheets |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by robbySAWYER on 11/17/06 at 6:24pm i dont see what the deal is, its not like it would be an advantage, you all have to weigh the same in the end, so who cares |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by outlawaaron98 on 11/17/06 at 6:25pm wow are we not happy with johnny fab or something ..... lol |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/17/06 at 6:34pm I think Johnny making a new style Super Street. If steel came in colored sheets it wouldnt be an issue. Lining up a painter and prepping the metal is a hassel. It shouldn't be a manditory rule so if someone still wanted to use steel they could. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by SS72 on 11/17/06 at 7:11pm Lining up a painter and prepping the metal is a hassel. All of this cost time,$$$$$ for all the materials, having someone doing it, if you can't. Helps lower that cost of doing a body. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by hogracer3d on 11/17/06 at 7:55pm Hey I am a painter and think it's a hassle. I ruined $100 in vinyl because I was in a hurry and applied it to a clearcoated door that was hard but still not cured. It looked fine when I went to bed, when I woke up in the morning all of the Metallic colors were covered with huge bubbles, it kinda looked cool but the other door was smooth. ( just another hassle to do with painting ) |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by S.S.RD45 on 11/17/06 at 8:15pm imracin68j wrote on 11/17/06 at 6:34pm:
It does It comes in white, and white and I belive also white |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/17/06 at 8:20pm Another bad issue with steel is those that use galv bodies ie: johnny fab. Anytime u need to grind/weld/ or if it catches on fire its a toxic mess. That stuff is more toxic than people think. I use vinigar to knock the galv off so the paint will stick. Who knows what chemicals people get exposed to. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by streetstockracer on 11/17/06 at 9:08pm does johnny fab have a website? I remember seeing something with pictures. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by ST_ODIE on 11/17/06 at 11:53pm well since were changing rules..................................... Never mind |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by TIM_BEWLEY on 11/18/06 at 8:53am alum. bodies are ok with me. i just have one question about the roof. steel, alum., fiberglass? i know that some cars that came down for the bud nats. had fiberglass roofs. if this is going to change i hope that we can get this rolling soon. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by Chad11 on 11/18/06 at 9:27am What are the rules up north? They must be doing something right to pull 70 supers at Chow's shootout. If they are allowed up there than go ahead and make the change. If not it is just going make you guys look MORE like a limited latemodel to other tracks. After seeing the cars at Chow and hearing about the complaining in Pahrump, you guys still need to be toned down. I now understand why only 26 cars turned out for the bad ass bottoms up 100 and 38 cars raced in Chow the next day for 1/4 the purse. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by dirtLM on 11/18/06 at 9:47am you need steel at almost all the tracks in the north |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/18/06 at 11:54am Im all for getting all the Cal SS on one rule book. I asked chow how many ss they get on a regular night and he said 8-13. So our regular EW nights pull more. I think alot of the cars up north dont feel like they can hang with Super Streets which keeps them out of Bak/SMS. I would say out of the 66 SS that raced at chow 25 were true EW style Super Streets. I believe the promoter from Ocean Speedway had interest in some EW type races so maybe getting the North and South on ONE rulebook might not be too far away. It really is the key to bigger car counts. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by streetstockracer on 11/18/06 at 3:19pm Someone try to get Antioch to join the group. The rules are very different than the south, even different than Ocean Speedway. Different motor rules, intake and tires. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by Sparky56 on 11/18/06 at 3:20pm Hey Bill, Hanford wants to talk with mama. Talked to Frank at the Nats. in Oct............... Alum. bodies, OK, with some kind of guide lines. NO JIG BUILT CARS(all fab)!! If that one flys, I get 3 link!!!! |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/18/06 at 3:33pm Hanford has a few races proposed in the EW for 07. I agree on the body guidlines. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by sj_valley_dave on 11/18/06 at 9:59pm Hey Chad 11, Chows rules were if you were legal at your track, then your legal there for their open. Chow's Open Comp race was actually looser in the rules than Bako. In fact Bako had the tightest rules of any of the Open Shows. The bitching at Pahrump was from some drivers , not the promoter. If you saw the cars that they run there you would understand. Their Streets are more restricted than Bako or Chow Hobbys. We're going to tow down to Imperial this weekend and run with the "scary" Perris cars. Might get our asses handed to us but oh well. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by SS72 on 11/19/06 at 6:57pm Reguardless of getting your a$$ handed to yah, it will be a hole lot of fun there, it always is, with lot of good people to hand it to yah. ha,ha |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by jrtracing on 11/19/06 at 9:55pm Pahrump had 2 Mods that they put front fenders on. It doesn't get any more open than that for a SS show. Niether one of them made the A-main. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by 38aRacer on 11/19/06 at 10:09pm streetstockracer wrote on 11/18/06 at 3:19pm:
Been there tried that, wasted breath fell on deaf ears. Hell, had to strap on 400lbs for 200cc runners. As a body manufacturer I think the added cost of Baked enamel on Aluminum sheet would offset the cost of painting steel, not to mention getting it to adhere properly. As posted earlier 3000lbs is 3000 lbs. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by SS72 on 11/20/06 at 8:10am 38aRacer wrote on 11/19/06 at 10:09pm:
There is no added cost of baking on enamel. You get the aluminum sheets already pre-colored, you don't have to fool with painting them. Just cut, bend and mold to your application. A lot easier to work with than steel. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by 3dshoe on 11/20/06 at 10:35am sj_valley_dave wrote on 11/18/06 at 9:59pm:
What's scary about a Perris car, we ran with them on our 2 bbl. They are usually pretty fun to race with. Chris |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by queenerracing on 11/20/06 at 10:38am chris, you were awsome at that 2 day show at perris. To bad it isnt happening this year. Good luck to all at imperial. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by Chris Kearns on 11/20/06 at 12:26pm Aluminum |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by lwiseracing on 11/20/06 at 12:39pm 5W SS I VOTE ALUMINIUM |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by dirtmopar44 on 11/20/06 at 4:03pm YES ALUMINUM BODYS!!!! AND THE BODY MUST MATCH THE MOTOR NOT THE CHASSIS |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by TIM_BEWLEY on 11/20/06 at 5:07pm dirtmopar44 wrote on 11/20/06 at 4:03pm:
cool we will all get to run alum. motors! lol |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by lwiseracing on 11/20/06 at 5:30pm LETS THE RACERS VOTE ON IT BUT IF U DONT RACE U DONT VOTE. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by lmfan01 on 11/20/06 at 8:19pm That lets you out 5 w lol |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by hogracer3d on 11/20/06 at 11:30pm If Speedway will let the crossovers go, then I will install a floorpan, and conform to the nosepiece deal--DT |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by mama68 on 11/21/06 at 5:37am hogracer3d wrote on 11/20/06 at 11:30pm:
WOW !!!!!! This is in print now, you can't take it back........lol Way to go hogracer3d.... |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by lwiseracing on 11/21/06 at 8:06am WHAT DO U MEAN BY THAT JIMMY |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by ST_ODIE on 11/21/06 at 10:09am I'm Ok with it JUST AS LONG AS IT LOOKS LIKE A CAR |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by mama68 on 11/21/06 at 10:17am Good god almighty...it's alright with ST_ODIE, you guys must have wore him down......lol |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by sj_valley_dave on 11/21/06 at 12:17pm This is going to get real interesting to see what people think a "SuperStock" is supposed to look like. If we are getting away from being associated with "Street Stock" and the whole concept of "Street", then what is an acceptable SuperStock look. I, for one, think that the transformation to a more "Late Model" appearing car makes it easier to sell the class as something besides a filler class. The further the cars move from the Hobby/Bomber look the easier it is to sell the series, IMO. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by FASTMIKE on 11/21/06 at 12:27pm sj_valley_dave wrote on 11/21/06 at 12:17pm:
exactly!! as well as it is a cleaner look from a sponsor standpoint and will show a sponsors name a lot nicer on a flat body car.......jmo. peace..........................mike |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by dirtLM on 11/21/06 at 12:52pm Then just call them Limited Late Models and go race. In the old days when you wanted a different car or motor, you moved up a class, now everyone just wants to move the whole class up. Then you have to start the original class over again, and have more classes with small counts in each. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by streetstockracer on 11/21/06 at 1:08pm I agree Dirt LM. Look at the NHRA. If you want to race a current class, you must meet the class rules. If you guys want to change the look of the cars, change the class you run. There are plenty of tracks that run Limited Late Models. Some of you guys can even use your crate motors. Most of you want to get too far away from a Street Stock (Super Stock) type car. Base the car off what we can drive on the street. Limited Late Models have there place (just not in this class). |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/21/06 at 1:20pm I think the steel roofs should stay.. Other than that as long as it fits the EW rules it shouldnt matter. Maybe a tight pillar rule, like the ones the guys ran in the 90s, would help distinguish the cars from complete latemodels. Im not sure how we decide what is considered a wedge nose or whats a slope. If steel came painted there would be an argument to keep steel. It's just not out there. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by jrtracing on 11/21/06 at 1:27pm streetstockracer wrote on 11/21/06 at 1:08pm:
If we did this we could run aluminum engines, and four wheel drive cars, with traction control,and computer controlled suspension. I'm all for it, lets get it going! The truth is, if we rename the class it should be called "Wagon Stocks", our technology is ancient compared to today's street cars. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by sj_valley_dave on 11/21/06 at 2:00pm I do not see what the big problem really is. The chassis will stay the same, the engine package rules will stay the same, it's only the body for crying out loud! Nobody is forced to run any specific body. If you guys still want to go to a wrecking yard and take your torches, and plasma cutters, go for it, nobody is saying you can't. The cars still weigh 3,000 lbs. Lee is right, how longs it been since you've seen very many 1974 Camaro's roaming the streets. The Hobby Stocks of today are the Street Stocks of 7-8 years ago. Things change, rules change. All we as racers can do is to try and better the class for the fans, promoters and ourselves. If that is by just allowing different bodies in a class and is not even being forced upon anyone, I just do not see the problem. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by hogracer3d on 11/21/06 at 2:33pm A body does not make a pro stock ( super stock ) a limited late. Wide fives, quick changes, motor set back, coil-overs,z-link, birdcages, Brinns, etc. make a limited late a limited late. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by tractoryellow#5 on 11/21/06 at 2:56pm I agree with both Daves. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by FASTMIKE on 11/21/06 at 2:59pm dirtLM wrote on 11/21/06 at 12:52pm:
i guess a class should never evolve with time according to this statement...................... peace...........................mike |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by jrtracing on 11/21/06 at 3:15pm I'm sure everyone is tired of hearing this from me, but here it is again. From dictionary.com stock car n. 1. An automobile of a standard make modified for racing. 2. A railroad car for carrying livestock. I think we still fit definition #1. I also generally think stock cars have fenders. Don't forget that many places still call "late models" - "late model stocks". We still run street tires, so in theory, we could still be "street stocks". Is there anyone out there that actually drove thier "street stock" to the track in the last 10 years, on a regular basis? I know it was common to do it back in the day, but I don't think so much lately. Changing the name doesn't change anything, but the name. It still costs the same and the same people are going to race the same class. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/21/06 at 3:59pm In the 70's the racers were more advanced for their time than we are. In the 70s guys were racing 70's camaros (even hobby stocks), In the 80s they ran 70's camaros In the 90's they ran 70's camaros. It's 2006 and were still on 70's camaros. 40 years on the Camaro. I can't believe any of those cars are still around. If you run a stock bodied 70s camaro (Almost 40 years old) you should be able to run in the nastalgia class. Can somene even imagine a 2000 anything on the track. As with any class out there we should have some kind of body guideline. I thought it was wierd that we were 2 inches wider than a latemodel. In any case Latemodels, IMCAs both have guidelines as should super whatevers. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by Dirt_Track_Junkie on 11/21/06 at 5:15pm Here is what I was thinking.... I think Super Stock or Pro Stock works. If you call it Limited Late Model you end up with guys that want to get their old Stock Clip cars in and then someone will find one of the Cox Bros. old GRT cars and it will never end. I'm in the process of getting an old Watsonville SS ready to come and run some races with EW and don't know what to do about a body. I like the Aluminum deal as long as the cars look like what they do now. My car has a fiberglass roof but I don't object to finding something steel. Any chance we can keep the cars from evolving into something that people can't afford to run? I mean, we alrady have Late Models. Super Stocks looks like a fun place to be! Now we need Northern cars on the same page as you EW guys! |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by DaveBauerSS6 on 11/21/06 at 8:12pm Dirt_Track_Junkie wrote on 11/21/06 at 5:15pm:
Too late Junkie; You need a closer look at the Victory Circle Street Stocks they are selling. No-stock anything on the chassis but the front clip. Add the do-almost-anything to the rear leaf spring mounts and you have a limited Late model. Am still getting inquiries on changing a mod over to a Street; I think one will be out next season. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by Dirt_Track_Junkie on 11/21/06 at 8:58pm I hadn't seen one yet. I just assumed they all looked like like Denman's, Jensen's, Cardoza's.... Bummer! Where is Randy Gray when we need him? |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by Chris Kearns on 11/21/06 at 9:29pm imracin68j wrote on 11/21/06 at 3:59pm:
Billy, a Late Model is 76" wide across the top of the door and 84" wide across the bottom. I dont think your Camaro is wider than that. My Mustang is 70" across the top and 72" across the bottom. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/21/06 at 9:46pm I believe the SS rule is 78 but I could be wrong. My car is 72ish (Pre-dents) |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by S.S.RD45 on 11/21/06 at 9:50pm Cliff notes for this whole thread. Some want aluminum, some dont care, some say no. Some ask what makes a street stock a street stock. Some say body, some say chassis, some dont care what you call as long as they fit the rules. Some say late model noses some say wedge noses some ask whats a wedge nose. Some say aluminum comes painted. Some say steel comes painted. So in other words to sum up the whole story. This whole thread says:"I want aluminum bodies cause I dont want to paint anymore. I dont care what you call my car as long as its legal. And who cares if everyone has finally agreed on rules. Now that they have lets try to change them already." |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by TIM_BEWLEY on 11/22/06 at 9:11pm ST_ODIE wrote on 11/21/06 at 10:09am:
they will odie, they will look like dirt stockcars |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by hogracer3d on 11/22/06 at 9:57pm The "Batmobile" is a car isn't it? |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by dirtLM on 11/23/06 at 9:26am They were all late models, If you want to be late models there is already a class. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by S.S.RD45 on 11/23/06 at 10:37am http://www.performancebodies.com/short_track_lumina.asp Even comes in pre painted steel. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/23/06 at 11:12am http://www.imca.com/rules.php?divisionid=22 Looking at this on the surface looks like a full blown latemodel but it really isnt if you look at it. It looks pretty good with a couple small adjusments.. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by jrtracing on 11/23/06 at 11:19am Ryan D. wrote on 11/23/06 at 10:37am:
And it's painted in all those beautiful colors you mentioned before: Ryan D. wrote on 11/17/06 at 8:15pm:
For the same price as white alum. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by hogracer3d on 11/23/06 at 12:36pm dirtLM wrote on 11/23/06 at 9:26am:
A body does not make a pro stock ( super stock ) a limited late. Wide fives, quick changes, motor set back, coil-overs,z-link, birdcages, Brinns, etc. make a limited late a limited late. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by S.S.RD45 on 11/23/06 at 1:14pm jrtracing wrote on 11/23/06 at 11:19am:
Just found it in red,yellow, ryder yellow?,blue, and green Sorry Billy no black yet 57.00$ a sheet |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/23/06 at 2:27pm ive been debating running a green car. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by hogracer3d on 11/23/06 at 4:43pm imracin68j wrote on 11/23/06 at 2:27pm:
That's what I'm talk'in about |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/24/06 at 10:04am How much would it cost to build a LM to run with Drake, Johnson and Hogge? Anyone can build a car cheap to go run some laps. To build a car that can win cost serious $$ in the LM. Most of the top drivers are either business owners or have someone fronting the bill. The 90s LM was a cool class that got kicked to the curb with the progression of the LM class. That's basically what your seeing the SS as now. The key is finding the point where you say this is as far as the class should go. It's harder than it appears because everyone has different opinions. I think we got a solid set of rules last year (SMS/BAK) that were logical, clearly understood and cost effective. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by Sparky56 on 11/24/06 at 12:47pm 60.000.00 for a new late model!! Is there going to be another rule meeting?? I thought the rules were set for 2 more yrs.? To me, alum. bodies are fine, with guidelines that WILL be followed. This fab chassis deal needs to be canned NOW before it kills the class. Things went good this season. Let's not crap in our Wheaties........ |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/24/06 at 4:00pm From the guys I talked to up north none of the rules are the same at any of the tracks which keeps them from having good car counts on any given night. The EW is a solid 18 cars all the time. Sometimes 25+. These are regular shows, not Open Comp shows. No rules have been changed as of yet, the body rule was just open for discussion. This year the class pulled back to an untouched rule on the heads and the tire rule last year pulled back to the medium compounds. Any of the stuff the guys have on their cars now (aside from the body) could have been done 8 years ago. The SS is closer to a hobby stock than a LM. I've seen alot of hobby stocks converted into SS. You need that for transition. I think most of the drivers would be up for some kind of loose template for the SS division. Basic guidelines. It still comes down to the tracks determining whats acceptable and what's not. Sparky, As long as they conform to the rule, you can't stop a chassis manufacturer from making chassis. Your just going to have to work harder on your car. It might help to show up to Bak every once in a while to get it faster. You should be thankful you have Doug and Patch to help you figure it out. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by S.S.RD45 on 11/24/06 at 6:46pm bluebyu wrote on 11/24/06 at 2:58pm:
The late models used to have all that and more. The all alum. motor no, A,B,C and class , and getting rid of the ec2 tire pretty much killed the local late models. And Billy as far as the stock clipped late models they had there day. By the late 90's the writing was pretty much on the wall. But that does mean a new street stock sould be the same as old late model. Cause then that opens up one big as$ can of worms. 10 differnet classes with 5 cars in each class. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/24/06 at 7:46pm Actually the old latemodels (80s 90s) were far more advanced than the Super Streets. They ran: mono-leaf/coil combos, aluminum brakes, aluminum rims, 10 inch EC2s, aluminum drivelines, torque shocks, torqe arms, quick changes, modified clips and ported aluminum heads. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by S.S.RD45 on 11/24/06 at 8:10pm imracin68j wrote on 11/24/06 at 7:46pm:
My point exactly(kinda) This is the road YOUR class is heading. And if people are not very cautious it will get alot sooner than everyone thinks. Just thought of something(maybe only SMS people will get this) If any one runs a alum. body it was comform following guidelines 1: no dirt wings 2: both front and REAR bumper covers must be installed 3: louvers must be installed on rear window covering. 4: must be a 1992 or older body and must be stock apearing. Of course all those bodies where fiberglass but at least you tell what kinda car it was. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/24/06 at 8:18pm Actually in 93 they converted to aluminum bodies at sms, A few years earlier at bak. That was the end of the bumper covers. No one runs fiberglass anymore. You had to bring a bucket to pick up all your pieces off the track. The whole idea of the east west was to get ahold of the division before it went that far. The two tracks were loosey goose on their rules allowing things to run that were either very grey or absent from the rules. Now we have a black and white rule book thats more or less in stone. The only downfall I see to the aluminum bodies is we all agreed on no rule changes/modifications for 3 years. The only rule that was added is Scotts aluminum head program and the demon carb that goes with it. I'd still like to see that rule refined more like some kind of swap program for carbs/motors but other than that it seems like a good deal. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by Sparky56 on 11/24/06 at 8:59pm imracin68j wrote on 11/24/06 at 8:18pm:
Why was this thread ever started?????????????? |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by racermick on 11/24/06 at 9:02pm Billy, for the '80s-'90s late models being "far more advanced" why were they slower than the super streets of today? Wait, let me answer that, tires! The cast cylinder heads today are better than the aluminum heads of the '80s-'90s. The chassis are no different other than some bolt on parts, they weigh the same, the 2bbl. carb has been a big factor since the '80s-'90s also. So as for being "far more advanced" you need to step back and rethink a few things. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/24/06 at 9:13pm Fred Joenck took a V6 and qualified 15.8XX with it. Maybe even lower.. Obviously technology gets better, no ones arguing that. But if you allowed monoleaf, torqe arms, torqe shocks and 10 inch tires on Super Street they would definatly use more HP and the money it takes to build it. Sparky: Because the EW rule needs input from all the drivers. It needs the pros and cons weighed in an open forum. Obviously if the pros out weigh the cons, it's probably not a bad move. If they don't, keeping the current rule is the way to go. All my posts cant be pictures of you. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by Dirt_Track_Junkie on 11/24/06 at 9:59pm One of my biggest gripes is for some reason we think that our race cars have to evolve. They don't, except for maybe safety issues. My opinion is the stock clip cars evolved their way to extinction. I went to the BUD Nationals in '89 to watch and saw like 60 LM's and as the carswere allowed to have more things less guys couldjustify the $$ and quit. The last year I ran with a stock clip at the Nationals I think there were 22 cars. We don't want SS to do that. Or we would all buy LM and have a weekly show with 100+ cars. This started out talking about the bodies, Steel to Aluminum. Performance sells them for the same price and Aluminum is available in multiple colors. Sounds great! Lets keep the cars the same for 10 years and let some guys move up and we will have big shows everywhere. If you decide you want to go faster, there are some great classes to move up to and you can sell your SS to someone wanting to move into the class. When I was a kid all we had was 2 classes and they ran a full B in each of those. Now I got to tracks with 5-7 classes and they run 1 or 2 heats and have a 7-12 cars in the main. BORING!!! E-W has a great thing going and I hope it continues! DTJ |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by S.S.RD45 on 11/24/06 at 10:51pm Dirt_Track_Junkie wrote on 11/24/06 at 9:59pm:
This person makes a great point. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by S.S.RD45 on 11/24/06 at 10:55pm racermick wrote on 11/24/06 at 9:02pm:
Seeings how Larry and Sparky are the only drivers posting on here to that have raced all three classes there opinions should be held in the highest regards. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by streetstockracer on 11/24/06 at 11:13pm You guys are going to end up playing by yourselves if you don't try to include the Northern tracks. Try to stick to your current rules package and you can include more tracks. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/24/06 at 11:14pm Not shorting anyone on their career, the EW rules should be made by EW drivers. I'm not sure Larry weighed in one way or the other on the body rule other than todays SS are faster than 90s late models and I need to check my facts. Sparky said he didn't care one way or the other on the rule as long as there was some kind of body guidelines which I agree with. I'm game with the majority on this one.. But the SMS guys should get a vote. We got little cars if any from up north last year. Even in the Bottoms up race which probably had the cheapest entry for the largest total purse in California. In any case, maybe we should stick to the rule we have now maybe for the next 2 years then make the move? Either way, we should decide soon as guys will be building bodies soon. In a perfect world the CA Super Street should have one rulebook througout CA. As you can see with this one body rule, getting everyone to agree is nearly impossible. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by darrll_hughes on 11/24/06 at 11:31pm We are all for the aluminum bodies. For years our car was yellow , and we changed it to white 3yrs ago because we could spend more $$$ on tires and fuel if we didnt paint the car. Not to mention it saved us alot of time.We are going to race possibly all of the E/W races in 2007,now that we are not racing asphalt anylonger. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/24/06 at 11:51pm The best way to do it is a vote than it's presented to the tracks. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by darrll_hughes on 11/24/06 at 11:58pm Billy,Why didnt you go to Imperial? |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/25/06 at 12:00am I cant get off work.. I used up all my fridays |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by darrll_hughes on 11/25/06 at 12:08am We used up all of our $ going to pahrump. Only to get screwed at the payout window. Sparky looked good down there. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by Dirt_Track_Junkie on 11/25/06 at 8:36am I too was amazed by the lack of support from up here for the Bottom's Up. I really figured the count to be around 35+ cars. I do have to agree that the present E-W drivers should set the rules. I just wanted to kick in my 2cents. I really love this class and hope it doesn't get out of hand where people decide to step down to lower classes. Or worst of all, QUIT! If we could get our promoters on the same page up here and with your rules that would be great. I'm sure Darrell would agree that Tom at Chow would be there (I put John at Ocean in here too but with the SS going away ???), I doubt anyone else would follow. DTJ |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/25/06 at 10:29am bluebyu wrote on 11/25/06 at 9:05am:
Next your going to tell me our new EW prototype car looks like a posse car...
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by S.S.RD45 on 11/25/06 at 7:32pm http://www.dirtmotorsports.com/corp/images/media/2006ProStockRulebook.pdf Whats everyones opinion on this rule package. It is kinda long winded but it does incorporate alot of ideas posted on here. And the body diagram pictures are wrong. They just got lazy like SMS roll cage diagram |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by TIM_BEWLEY on 11/26/06 at 10:49am these are my prototypes. trying to find out which nose and side board works best. the bodies are the white enamal baked steel. 
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by sj_valley_dave on 11/27/06 at 9:22am Respectfully gotta disagree bluebyu. I do not know how many "Open Shows" you went to, but you made the statement that even the open shows don't allow aluminum bodies. This year aluminum bodies were allowed and were ran at Chowchilla, Kings, Pahrump and Imperial open shows. I know this for a fact as we were there and saw them, along with a large number of fiberglass cars that were at Imperial. We had a steel body and did not see anyone getting fired up over having their aluminum body torn up by a steel body. The 2nd largest car count of any of the mid Cal or Southern Cal open shows was at Imperial, with 40 cars, behind Chows huge turnout, which just happened to have some of the most Open rules of all. Toms deal was if you were legal somewhere you were legal there. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by sj_valley_dave on 11/27/06 at 11:33am No they did not dwindle to 6 cars. We ran the points deal at Tulare and had a high of 24 cars and low of 14 during that season. The reason it went away was that the promoter was having problems with his paychecks. Then he went to a special shows only type format, no weekly races in any class. You mention Hanford and Santa Maria and their tightness years ago re: rules, thats great, but that was then. The rules at the Open Shows in the Southern part of the state have gotten away from the steel body requirements at the Open Shows. If Tom allowed a QC in a S/S that's too bad as I know of zero tracks that will allow a QC in a S/S. Tom had the only show that I know of that did not have/enforce a weight rule. The 3rd place car at Imperial this last weekend was DQ for weighing in at 2989. Personally we don't care that Antioch's or Petaluma's Open Shows don't allow aluminum or fiberglass bodies. The rules they use in both regular races and their "Open Races" are written so that we are not legal anyway. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/27/06 at 2:22pm I really dont think most drivers want the aluminum body because their looking for an extra 10-20 cars off the car. We already allow aluminum hoods. ( I ran steel). In any case, I think most drivers think its a pain in the A@@ to paint the bodies every time you have to replace it. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by sj_valley_dave on 11/27/06 at 3:41pm I agree Billy. It's not the weight, we all have to be at 3,000 lbs. It's the ease of pounding the aluminum back flat and the biggest deal, not having to deal with the painting issues. We went white like Darrell just because of the painting deal. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/27/06 at 5:37pm Stock production items still on a SS Clip Lower control arms steering box Rear end multi leaf springs spindles brakes (most guys) Front rotors None of this stuff is found on a LM. I think as long as you keep these items stock it will never be a LM. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by hogracer3d on 11/27/06 at 7:39pm We ran against several LLM's at Fallon with coil-overs, and they all were among the ( 3D & 72 ) victim's. Don't forget to remind them to move the motor back foreward to the stock location, leave the Brinn at home, and then bring em on. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by Dirt_Track_Junkie on 11/27/06 at 8:16pm And you will most likely find the LLM"s that are closer to SS got whooped buy the LLM's that were closer to Late Models. I agree with hogracer. Bring'em on as long as they meet the rules. They'll have more fun runnin' SS. Make sure the bodies look like the after maket steel ones not like a LM. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/27/06 at 9:17pm Maybe after we have a clear winner we should vote on the guidelines set in place with an aluminum body. That's were it gets a little sticky.. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by Sparky56 on 11/27/06 at 9:28pm The way this is going, you should work on the old 68 LM. It will be legal to run EW next year................... |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/27/06 at 9:31pm it doesnt have a full clip or I would. I thought we've done quite a bit to make sure you cant run a 3 link. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by Sparky56 on 11/27/06 at 9:57pm imracin68j wrote on 11/27/06 at 9:31pm:
YOU HAVE!!! I'll retire before I build a darn camaro.......... |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by sj_valley_dave on 11/28/06 at 8:46am Hey Sparky, you should have gone to Imperial. 40 cars showed up and there were, at the most, 8 leaf spring cars. I saw 4 links, 3 links, 5 coil setups and Z links. You would have been in 7th heaven :) :) The LLM that used to run at Chow would be low tech compared to some of the Southern Cal cars. Take out their QC and get rid of the wide 5's and they would have been a run of the mill car. At this point it really does not matter to us what is decided on the aluminum vs. steel body thing, but nobody is going to convince me that an aluminum body all of a sudden turns your car into a LLM. That is a pipe dream. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by jrtracing on 11/28/06 at 2:44pm An aluminum body doesn't make it a mod., not having front fenders would make it a mod. As long as it shows up with fenders, it will be a "Stock Car". |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by Frazier15 on 11/28/06 at 3:08pm In my humble opinion- I doubt SMS would agree to Aluminum bodies. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by junior_varsity_14 on 11/28/06 at 3:23pm jrtracing wrote on 11/28/06 at 2:44pm:
so Lee the "X" car from pahrump was a "stock Car"?? |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by jrtracing on 11/28/06 at 3:54pm he was that night. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by mama68 on 11/28/06 at 5:52pm Frazier15 wrote on 11/28/06 at 3:08pm:
And why do you think that ???? SMS like Bakersfield and some other tracks have been working with the drivers for a change for the betterment of racing. I think they understand we (the E/W series teams ) have, and will continue to build the car count, by working with each other, and the tracks, instead of the old school bickering that accomplished nothing. We are all out here for one purpose to build up the car counts, and put on good shows for the fans, and most of all HAVE FUN.....Things don't happen overnight, but I think we have proven in a short period of time, that working together as a team is what it takes to build our SS division back up again. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by dirtLM on 11/28/06 at 6:43pm When you start putting flat sheet aluminum on the sides of the cars with the full noises you now run they will look just like the late models. They might have a slight curve when you first make them but after rubbing a few weeks they will be flat. And its still the same price as steel. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by mama68 on 11/28/06 at 6:50pm dirtLM wrote on 11/28/06 at 6:43pm:
How much is a sheet of steel now a days ? and what size sheet is it ? |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by dirtLM on 11/28/06 at 7:00pm I just saw the 15 car on your website, (the website is great by the way) is that what you all are trying to look like? flat sided late model? |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by hogracer3d on 11/28/06 at 7:03pm nope, a semi- flat side with a horizontal brake = street stock |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by mama68 on 11/28/06 at 7:04pm that is a steel body car....I think it is body guide lines that need to be kept in check, not just what the body is made out of |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by Chris Kearns on 11/28/06 at 7:04pm I think making a common sence rule change is OK, even when you have a 3 year rule book. This isn't the kind of rule that makes everyone go out and change there car. You just go to aluminum if you want. If you like steel bodies, than stick with steel. No problem. The majority of the racers will be buying new bodies anyway, so this rule change will actually be saving money right now. How about some type of body line rule? One body line down the side or something like that? Since some guys are hooked on this "flat side" deal. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by mama68 on 11/28/06 at 7:07pm and thanks on the website, Lee is doing a great job, and think when it is all finished, and everyone has contributed to it, it will be a good site for everyone to know what is going on in our little shootout series. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by mama68 on 11/28/06 at 7:19pm bluebyu wrote on 11/28/06 at 7:18pm:
Nope he lost out on that vote too........He can resubmit it again for a vote for the 2009 season......lol... |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by S.S.RD45 on 11/28/06 at 7:28pm dirtLM wrote on 11/28/06 at 7:00pm:
Website??? whos gotta website |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by S.S.RD45 on 11/28/06 at 7:30pm mama68 wrote on 11/28/06 at 7:07pm:
EAST vs. WEST has a website FREAKEN COOL. Whats the address |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by mama68 on 11/28/06 at 7:30pm We're just getting one going for E/W shootout www.eastwestshootout.com |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/28/06 at 8:46pm full frame |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by jrtracing on 11/28/06 at 9:02pm dirtLM wrote on 11/28/06 at 7:00pm:
That's not what most of us want as a body. He's our Champion though, and that's why I put him on the front page. Thanks for all the kind words on the site. |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/28/06 at 10:02pm Lee, I can't see the pic.. Maybe cause I'm on a mac.. It's very important that I see all the pics that get posted there |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by jrtracing on 11/28/06 at 10:59pm you need to buy a new computer if it's so important! lol |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by Chris Kearns on 11/29/06 at 8:20am mama68 wrote on 11/28/06 at 7:19pm:
It's not cheating until you get caught. Never had anyone crawl under my car with a magnet this year! |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by mama68 on 11/29/06 at 9:08am Thanks for the heads up Chris. We can make that part of the every race pre check...sounds good.... |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by imracin68j on 11/29/06 at 9:17am Chris Kearns wrote on 11/29/06 at 8:20am:
How could anyone crawl underneith your car at home? lol |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by mama68 on 11/29/06 at 9:28am Ouch..........lol |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by lmfan01 on 11/29/06 at 7:07pm Billy was you talking to Sparky or Chris Not sure where you were going !!!!!!!!!! |
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Title: Re: TIME TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO ALUMINUM BODIES? Post by 3dshoe on 11/29/06 at 7:15pm 2Xhobby wrote on 11/29/06 at 7:07pm:
True, I didn't see sparky all year and Chris was stealing Lee's trophy last time I saw him.LOL |
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